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Yellowikis talk:News

From Yellowikis: Open Business Listings

I dont think this is the right time to anounce you are going to try to make money from this site.... bad timing.

I agree... Are you trying to piss of yell even more?


I also agree it is very bad timing!
However Yell.com seem to have as their main argument that the website Logo, shown top left, makes people think it is their website. Commonsense and the fact that companies don't have to pay to be listed on yellowiki.org, or get information from it would indicate otherwise, especially to business people. Additionally Yell.com advertise themself, at the top of their website, as a UK Search Engine. They also have a web address of .com whereas Yellowiki is a .org address, which are entirely different entities.
Perhaps changing the logo (but why should you as it is entirely different to theirs and they don't own the colour yellow) or putting a disclaimer below it to advise people they are not the same website, with the web address of Yell.com, to go to would help remove that assumption. A second argument for the court action would be that Yell.com want to take over the business of the companies listed in Yellowikis.org for their own use and monetary gain. In which case having the pages of this website within the Wikipedia organisation, with the obvious backing of Jimbo Wales would take Yell.com out of the scene.
Are we also likely to see Yell.com then try to take over the website of yellowwiki.com or any other organsation that happens to have 'Yell' at the start of their name:
A third case scenario for the action is simply one of advertising. By taking out the court action Yell.com can gain huge amounts of free publicity through the national media, then drop the action, for far less than it would cost to pay for the same amount of coverage.


[edit] start comment from John

Cool - somewhere I can express an opinion without some censorious overseers :)

a) I would help you with a donation, but am disinclined to do so right now. I need you come a bit cleaner on how much has been contributed and where you stand with your fund. I am all for the little guy - but first you need to convince me...

b) It seems to me that you could change your logo especially removing the "yellow" and adjust it's positioning then it would be very hard for them to keep on at you about this aspect of the complaint.

c) What is the big deal about changing the website URL to something without yell or yellow in it?

d) On the other hand, if you are not willing to compromise on these kind of things then it is almost admiting that you are trying to create a "brand" and want to compete with your challengers.

e) You chose a bad time to mention the money making potential of your site. You need to get a clue about fighting with the big boys otherwise they will take you down.

[edit] Comment from Adaru

I have to agree with the others. The BBC news article quotes you as saying "The site is run as a hobby and not for profit" - which should make people feel sympathy for the underdog, especially those who believe that 'information should be free'. And the first thing we see when we come to your site to check it out? "We know that we must start to make some money."

This really wasn't a good move. Personally, I think your best choice here is to take suggestions from your users for a name change, apply it, move to a new URL, and take that logo down. Make it a gesture of goodwill to Yell - because if you take them on and they win, with their demand that you be prohibited from starting up any more potential competitors, then it's just one more blow for small enterprise, profit-making or otherwise. The argument that they're unfairly laying claim to anything resembling 'Yell' isn't quite true - they're complaining about a listings site using the name. By all means if you think the name is the most important point here then take them on and good luck to you. Or, just continue under a different name with a different image, and they lose their hold over you. - Adaru, visiting from Wikipedia. (11:08, 12 July 2006)

[edit] Comment from iant54

Yell's solicitors are demanding that:

1) the Yellowikis site is shut down - would there be any problem if a new website were to be opened up as Wiki-listings or some other such name?

2) control and ownership of the domain name is passed to Yell - that does suggest that Yell want to control/own any website that begins "yell", but don't want the effort (or expense) of trying to figure out what people could actually come up with.

3) compensation is paid to Yell for loss of profits - who determines how much Yell have lost? Yell themselves?

4) Paul and Rosa agree never to set up another competitor to Yell - obviously Yell feel threatened - why??

To be honest, if the news item on BBC News (and, thus, Yell's lawsuit) hadn't cropped up, I would probably not have come across Yellowikis! I rarely use Yell anyway.

[edit] Fight them

Yellowikis is clearly a play on the term yellow pages. Yellow pages is in the dictionary and is a term used all around the world. Yell are obviously worried they will lose money but that's their problem.

Yell Group, who run Yell, are the company who run Yellow Pages in the UK. Internationally speaking, "yellow pages" is a generic term referring to business listings and not a proper noun. Take a look at this page at Wikipedia for more information on "yellow pages". --OldakQuill 18:40, 12 July 2006 (BST)

[edit] MacLibel

Once words become generic, they cease to be trademarks as such, e.g. "I will Xerox that paper", or shall we Google for it?", or "Let's Hoover the carpet". Should we "Yellowiki for that info?"

This sort of reminds me of the MacLibel case. It did McDonalds a tremendous amount of harm trying to win that case and they had a got a judgement they couldn't really enforce and worse, they got bad publicity.

I can see this going the same way!

[edit] Generic terms

I am not a lawyer, but it could be argued that 'yellow pages' is a generic term, as mentioned above. A quick Google shows a large number of sites using the words 'yellow pages' with regard to busines listings. I would compile as comprehensive a list of online and offline uses of the words 'yellow pages' as possible.

You might also be able to argue that because the term 'white pages' is used to mean a directory of people, and is similarly widely used, that 'yellow pages' is sufficiently generic for there not to be a case.

However, you do need to get proper legal advice, if you haven't already done so.

These sites may or may not help. I've never used any of them so they are not a recommendation.

New comment: I doubt you're right. Although to hoover the carpet is a generic phrase, I can't imagine another vacuum cleaner manufacturer starting up business, calling themselves EasyHoover and getting away with it. Ditto Xerox and copy machines. My advice: call yourselves Jellowikis and make your logo pink and wobbly.

Careful here - "Jello" is actually a trade name, you'll then perhaps have Kraft to contend with! see this from [1]:
1845 The industrialist, inventor and philanthropist Peter Cooper, of Tom Thumb engine and Cooper Union fame, obtained the first patent for a gelatin dessert. Although he packaged his gelatin in neat little boxes with directions for use, Cooper did very little with it. Home cooks still relied on sheets of prepared gelatin, which had to be clarified by boiling with egg whites and shells and dripped through a jelly bag before they could be turned into shimmering molds. This was a time-consuming process, very different from today's JELL-O® gelatin.
Lynbarn 08:54, 4 August 2006 (BST)


Many people will say they Hoover their carpet. How many will say they Electroluxed it , Dysoned it, Goblined it, Bushed it or Boshed it, Morphy Richards it, Panosoniced it, etc etc. as opposed to Vacuumed it.

[edit] Fight!

I definitely believe that you should do all you can to retain the name Yellowiki. The mere fact that Yell can seriously threaten a lawsuit based upon the colour yellow shows what an absurd copyright system we live under. Could you, in a worst case scenario, move your servers to the Netherlands or Sweden or somewhere of that type to escape Yell's reach and retain the name? This would save you tens of thousands in legal costs; it is preferable that you continue to operate under this name than fight a suicide lawsuit for honour. --OldakQuill 18:37, 12 July 2006 (BST)

[edit] Yellow websites

To demand that Paul and Rosa agree never to set up another competitor to Yell is definately anti-competitive in nature and I believe illegal under EU legislation. Perhaps the Monopolies and Mergers Commission should be requested to investigate Yell.com.

Before taking on Yellowikis.org perhaps Yell.com aka yellgroup.com, should try taking on the US website yellow.com whose name is far more similar. But then they would also have to take on all other similar named international websites:-

[edit] Support

This is really another example of someone having a bright idea, and big business getting the hump because they didn't think of it first. Surely they are just picking on the little guy here.

Just rename the site to something else, let them have the yellowikis.com site address and let bygones be bygones. or is yell.com so hard put by that they need to generate revenue by screwing the little guy.

I'm tempted to say that because of this action (and the way the yell.com have behaved) I'll never use them again. BUT their site is useful and I will continue to use it. To be quite honest, I had never heard of this site until yell.com decide to screw you over. Or is that the plan, generate advertising with the court action for the site, then take it over and make it into a big business?

[edit] Outraged by Yell's lawsuit? Would you withdraw your Yellow Pages advert in protest?

You can also pledge to withdraw your advert from Yellow Pages and Yell.com unless Yell Ltd stop their legal action against Yellowikis. As well as hurting Yell's bottom line, this will create extra publicity for the fight against their bully-boy campaign.

Sign the pledge

[edit] start comment from Earl

I agree with John, I would like to see some kind of tally for how much you are collecting and how much you think you will need. Also what you will do with the money should Yell decide that the caning they are getting about this is not a good thing after all.

I disagree about the income issue. There is nothing at all wrong with earning some income in exchange for the work you put in. Whether you earn that by charging for the service or enabling advertising from listed companies etc is up to you. And announcing it now is perfectly acceptable.

The fact that Yellowikis is free is irrelevant to the case being made, in fact I suspect that Yell would be MUCH happier if you were running a business because then you would place at least some limits on the possible damage that you might do to their business model, as distinct from their business.

[edit] contact yell

The Yell Press office For media enquiries please contact Jon Salmon or Demelza Fryer-Saxby in our press office on 0118 950 6999 or email us at pressoffice@yellgroup.com

I'd suggest sending them an email to ask why they are bullying yeloowikis

[edit] Yellow

It sounds to me like Yell are trying to trademark the colour yellow. I don't think thay can do that. Why... if that kind of thinkng was allowed to continue, they could sue me for painting my door yellow, claiming that callers might mistake my apartment for their office. Hopefully, judges will see sense and dismiss the case as being without merit. --80.87.134.9 15:39, 2 August 2006 (BST)

[edit] Yell - Bananas!

I heard about this on the BBC this afternoon. I have never used yell.com, (or yellowikis.org either for that matter!), but now that I have heard of yellowikis.org, I shall be taking a keen interest.

As for yells action - I think it is bananas - in fact how about that for a new name - IF you lose?

regards, and best wishes for your forthcoming defence... Lynbarn 22:49, 2 August 2006 (BST)

[edit] Pledge? I'm delisting NOW!

I heard about this on BBC Radio 4 this evening. I am outraged.

Yell is headquartered locally - and therefore presumably enriching the local economy - but I now regard their contribution as dirty money. I've therefore asked them to remove my business from their listings.

A small donation is on its way to the fighting fund.

Fight the good fight,

Mark Iliff Talespinnner Ltd

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